Do straight women enjoy gay porn?
That was the primary question on my mind when I sat down with my good friend Virginia Peters, an art professor and tantra maven in Seattle Washington.
But, with Virginia, as I expected, so much more was explored and revealed: The passionate demands of Aphrodite, the American tendency to overlay it’s mercenary psychology onto sex, especially the classic “money shot” that’s become the raison de etre of all porn — gay or straight.
The mythology of love between men and women in general, and of course, as promised what do women want from porn, gay or otherwise. Is the feminine connective principle present within the uroboric bubble of male/male love/lust?
Read on and see for yourself:
David K: Does Aphrodite, the goddess of love and lust make an appearance within male/male sex?
Virginia Peters: There’s always an interplay of the male and the female in sexuality, even in a male/male relationship or female/female. It’s part of the energies of any union; it’s essentially like a plug fitting into a socket. What projects out is the male principle and what allows in is the female principle.
DK: So Aphrodite is present in all relationships?
VP: Yes. You don’t have any pairing without some feminine element there. I think male/male sex — fiery to firey — ram to ram — can have a charge in it; but I think if a relationship is to be sustained between two men, then the feminine principle enters the picture. In a full bodied relationship, where sex and love intertwine, the female principle becomes the glue that holds the relationship together.
DK: Within New Age rhetoric Aphrodite is always referred to as a nice, pink, fluffy, Hallmark card-like force — Venus and cupid and all of that. But in actuality…
VP: She can be ravenous…
DK: Yes, as a goddess she was very lusty and randy and she took multiple lovers. Astrologically the planet Venus represents the relating principle as well as the deep, passionate, lusty expression of one’s sexuality.
VP: Yes; consider the reality of multiple orgasms. And many a woman has been accused of being a bottomless pit of desire. The vagina is open for business — but the penis in question has to prove itself worthy. Not just any penis will do. After all the vagina is making an investment here, I mean, the man can flee the union but the woman holds the man inside, long after he’s ejaculated.
DK: You once said to me that you were a bit jealous about gay male sexuality and its multiplicity of possibilities? With a male couple we’ve two mouths, two penises, two assholes…
VP: Yeah, and two phobias about intimacy.
DK: What do you mean by that?
VP: Well, I’m addressing the male’s inadequate emotional equipment — you know, the fear in men of appearing feminine — whether they’re gay or not. Emotions are equated with the female and nobody wants to be called a girl, whether they’re gay or not.
DK: So, what about sexual equipment envy? Dare I say “penis envy?”
VP: Well, yes there was that one photo you had up on Nightcharm recently. You could see this one guy licking the other guys asshole like it was a vagina, but then there was this cock — which reminded me of a giant clit — attached to that “vagina.” So I could see the hermaphroditic aspect of gay lovemaking. The androgyny of it. It’s like that old Certs ad: “Two! Two mints in one.” The penis and vagina in one. Gay men get to play out both polarities. Lesbians don’t get to have two penises included in the set. But men have a hole and rod, and that’s not fair. [Laughing] So there is a little envy, because [loudly] I want a penis?
DK: Why do you think gay men are fixated on the phallus?
VP: Well, I can only answer that as a woman. I think when a woman enters into a relationship with a man she is trying to make peace with her own inner male, her own sense of will, assertion, and steadfastness. She looks at the man and she sees her own male there and she wants to imbibe it and take it in to deeply connect with it. She wants the sacred union within herself. She wants to be man/woman. I feel everyone wants this kind of inner union. Everyone wants to come together inwardly. So the woman hankers for the penis. The penis comes in and she is complete — for a moment. And the penis longs to put itself into a socket, and when it’s in that socket it feels complete — be it vagina or asshole.
DK: Sounds very Jungian or Freudian or Somebody-ian.
VP: I’m sure gay men also sense this need for completion. It must be that each male, in a gay male relationship, is still searching for his penis — or more precisely, each male is seeking his father.
DK: What about male female roles within a gay male relationship?
VP: Well, the gays I know don’t like the butch and fem idea — mainly because it’s embarrassing for the one that’s fem, because again, there’s this unspoken shame associated with the feminine, which frankly, pisses me off.
DK: Why?
VP: It’s just our culture’s wholesale rejection of Aphrodite, in countless overt and subtle ways. Somehow it’s shameful to be female, to represent the female in any way; be it through passivity, softness or surrender. Even feminism rejects the feminine. I find some aspects of feminism to be extremely phallic. So what if a woman wants to lay in her backyard and eat bon bons and not contribute to society. Why does everything have to be about doing, doing, doing — penetration, penetration, penetration?
DK: Is there any truth in the cliché that gay men are more attuned to the feminine?
VP: I think gay men are more attuned to the feminine. I do find gay men more psychologically available, more emotionally tender and more willing to explore the mysteries of life; and certainly much more verbal, which is what women long for in men. It is terrible that so many of these fabulous men in the world are gay –[laughing] for me, I mean — terrible for me.
DK: I remember you and I were watching a Kristen Bjorn video recently and you were exclaiming — during the protracted cum shots: “Oh my god, look, that’s where life begins.” Why do you think cum shots are so critical in porn? What is it about cumming that fascinates us so?
VP: When a man cums it’s like telling the world, “I’m alive, I’m here, I have sperm which creates life.” It’s playing God. I think it’s the one instance where human beings see something in themselves that is God-like and can create life.
DK: Were you as fascinated as I was watching the cum shots in the video? They were so spectacular. I asked Kristen once how those guys churned out so much and — duh, he told me that’s three or four days worth of spooge — each scene takes a week to shoot.
VP: I’m not so impressed with cum, to be honest. Men are impressed because it’s a literal emblem of their potency and power. But woman is the stage upon which the drama of life is enacted. So I’m much more interested in my own plumbing. But I like cum. It’s an alchemical elixir and fun to play with. It’s just not as important to a woman as it is to a man.
DK: Our culture’s obsession with the literal — having to see, touch and taste things — seems to be a key here. Life is a mystery, sex is a mystery and cum is both a by-product and player in that mysterious dance. You can actually see it, it’s like a liquid answer to the meaning of life question.
VP: [Laughing] I think that because men feel in awe of a women’s power to create — if not consciously, then certainly unconsciously — they need to keep seeing their cum — preferably on a daily basis. This originates from a deep feeling of being out of the loop. A guy just keeps cumming and cumming as an affirmation that he can create something. This is also why most of the world’s great artists, writers, architects, gurus are men, etc. Not for lack of talent on the part of women, mind you, but from a simple lack of interest. Women simply are creativity, in their very nature; and men somehow have to prove creativity.
DK: I find a lot of the “money shots” in straight porn disturbing. Just about every video has a required scene where a group of guys encircle a woman, jerk off frantically and then cum all over her face, tits and stomach.
VP: Well first, in regards to that term “money shot,” this is just so totally American. Everybody wants the pay-off, everything is so orgasm oriented. This is what’s so frustrating for women in sex with men. Women want the process — they don’t want the product. And we have such a material culture, it’s all about: “Boom! Give it to me right away. Give me the pay off. Show me the money.” Process isn’t honored in our culture at all.
DK: But metaphorically speaking, what do you think about these circle jerk/cum drenching scenes I was talking about?
VP: Well, finally, for a minute or so, and on film no less, a guy can conquer nature. Woman represents this huge, mysterious, frightening natural force. So for once, if enough guys can encircle her while she’s supine and drench her in cum — for that moment man will have put nature in it’s place.
DK: But what about in gay porn, where there’s a group of men cumming on another male actor?
VP: Oh, that’s just football.
DK: What about women viewing gay porn? Do straight women want to see naked men, and do they want to see naked men sucking and fucking each other?
VP: To be honest, when I look at gay pornography, I look at it as a curiosity because it’s not directed towards me. It’s directed for men towards men. So, another man is the object, not me. So I don’t feel included particularly. Those men aren’t wanting Aphrodite, they’re not reaching with their penises towards the feminine. They’re reaching towards each other. So it’s a bit solipsistic. It’s like watching someone masturbating.
DK: What about some of the letters I receive from woman talking about how much they enjoy watching men getting it on with each other?
VP: Well, I think the penis is beautiful. I love all of those gleaming, erect penises. As a work of art the penis is the fleshy equivalent of Michelangelo’s David.
DK: But as a pornographic process, in place to eroticize or titillate, it doesn’t do anything for you?
VP: I’ve only seen your web site, which is beautiful. I don’t really surf the web looking for porn. From an aesthetic point of view I love Nightcharm; and all the pictures you’ve displayed are really beautiful and emulate male beauty. But I’d much rather curl up with some well written erotica.
DK: So you just like the solo male model photos — naked, buff and erect — available just for you?
VP: [Laughter] No, I don’t mind men with each other with their gleaming penises. I’m just excluded. It’s like when I was living in Seattle’s gay district, Capitol Hill, all of that male energy buzzing in the environment wasn’t for me. So the Aphrodite in me weeps — she wonders, “What about me?” Actually, she just weeps in general, especially in relation to gay male porn. It’s like a fraternity that have banded together to say no to Aphrodite en masse.
DK: Maybe it’s saying “no” to Mama.
VP: Yes. Although this reminds me of an insight I had the other day after studying a lot of the blow job pictures in Nightcharm’s Inner Circle. You know, in infancy the mother’s nipple in the baby’s mouth is proportionately as big as one of those penises in an adult’s mouth. So I can’t help but seeing men, or women for that matter, sucking men off as a movement to get back to mama’s breast. It’s the nipple all over again, not to mention that white, creamy, milk by-product. A baby has to suck hard and for along time, initially, to get the mother’s milk to come down. So, well, you figure it out.
So on the surface, yes, there is that blanket rejection of the mother with gay men, but then on the deeper, psycho-sexual levels there’s still that movement to reenact the mother/baby relationship, which as Freud said was the underpinning of our polymorphous sexuality. It’s primal wiring, hetero or homo.
DK: So the mother is a problem within gay sexuality?
VP: I think men in general feel overwhelmed by women. First there is The Mother as the primary object in childhood and then there is nature itself as Mother Nature –omnipresent, all powerful, unavoidable. I feel for men and their fear of being completely engulfed by the feminine. So culture and civilization rises up to overcome nature and it’s just this huge wrestling match between nature and civilization.
And the Greeks, come on! It was the beginning of modern civilization and all these guys are banded together on their side of the swimming pool sucking each other off and the women are on the other side going, “Huh, what the fuck?”
DK: Well, nature — the creative principle and by association women — can feel terrifying, because it’s so mysterious, unfathomable. Look at how hard science keeps working to crack the code.
VP: I think what’s happening is that civilization is becoming such a force in it’s own right that maybe nature and civilization will balance each other out. Maybe things will chill out now. And maybe there was a need for that male principle to rise up and balance the omnipresence of the feminine. It seems part of the perfection of things to move towards balance. I mean, Aphrodite wants a consort, she doesn’t want to rule and stomp down. She wants to love.
© 2008, David K.. All rights reserved. Nightcharm.com
I don’t know if straight women like to watch gay porn–though I certainly enjoy your beautiful site–but they surely like to read it. It’s one of the hottest genres in romance at the moment. My most recent royalty check is proof of that.
Thanks for all the thoughtful, fun, and interesting posts. I love your site.
Very interesting article, interview the sacred feminine was very insightful, I’ve always struggled as a sexual gay man to keep balance between my feminine and masculine aspects.
The craze of straight women who love gay male porn has been talked about quite a bit after the Brokeback Mountain mania. When women came out of their gay-loving closet, it illustrated the flip side of a common cliche, that all straight porn for straight men has to always include at least one lesbian scene with pussies bumping pussies. SHOCK! The same is true for straight women: They like to look at hot naked guys getting it on, and it doesn’t really matter that they’re fucking each other.
And listen, it’s a myth that all straight gals only want the sort of porn that features scented candles and dusky lighting — plenty of women want the nastee, sweaty, pounding hard stuff.
Author Regina Lynn says that it’s not always about identifying with someone in a scene: “For me, gay porn has always been arousing because of its masculinity. The strength and power, plus the double dose of raw male drive and sexuality, add up to more than the sum of their parts.”
YES!
I love gay porn for the handsome guys, the hairiness, the swinging sweaty balls, the blasts of testosterone and jizz — and all of that uncensored horniness.
I actually know quite a few dykes who like gay porn too.
interesting but heady stuff – i haven’t quite taken it all in…
this is a very erotically and intellectually stimulating site.
thank you for all the stimulation.
It’s interesting to consider the elements of masculine and feminine in man-on-man sex (and, I suppose, in woman-on-woman as well). I think she’s right that that’s there, but there are many different forms it takes along a spectrum. All the way from some sort of dominant submissive, strict top/bottom dichotomy, to a far subtler way where the feminine is more conspicuous by its absence. Where the feminine is present somehow on the outside looking in–two men asserting extreme masculinity with each other as a kind of rejection of the feminine (knowing that she’s watching..). I think it was the Jungian analyst Christine Downing who wrote somewhere about gay male archetypes from mythology that the gay male lovers in myth are often in flight from the Mother Goddess. The very fact that they’re in flight is what makes it so passionate. So the feminine still figures into the erotic equation.
Wow, fascinating interview David. Thank you. And thanks to Virginia for being so candid. There were things she brought up that had never occured to me before.
I think it would be risky to generalize about the male/female aspect of gay male relationships. My experience is that we’re all over the map in terms of how our masculinity and femininity play out in respect to our relationships. I recently saw a French film in which the age-old question was asked: “So which one of you is the boy and which is the girl?” The answer was not what you usually hear. It went something like: “The nice thing is having a choice.” I’m paraphrasing because I don’t remember the exact words of the conversation.
My own experience in relationships has been that there is no clearly defined role; each of us moving back and forth between dominant and submissive as the moment or mood dictated. I have never seen any of my lovers as feminine or anything even remotely like that. For me, I can be completely submissive and more “feminine” in my approach to the relationship one day and then agressive and brutish the next.
That said, I have always felt a strong current of femininity coursing through my consciousness, even though it doesn’t express itself in any real conspicuous ways. There are so many variations that it’s almost impossible to find a distinct thread to follow through all gay men. Generalizations present so many problems.
Very interesting. The deepest interview I’ve read in quite some time on the subject. I wish I had my friends I could have conversations like this with me. You go, David!
This bitch rocks! Loved it.
David K. you are a true scholar. Really enjoyed this, and special thanks to Virginia for her insight.
David and Virginia, thanks for a wonderful and enlightening interview. I’m a straight woman who loves reading gay erotica and loves watching gay porn. I almost prefer gay porn to straight porn because gay porn seems more fair. In straight porn, usually the woman is being subjugated in one way or another. In gay porn, the giver and receiver are usually equals. Even if ten men ejaculate over one man, the receiver is still considered just another guy, not labelled a slut or objectified as a woman would be.
Also men, even in porn, seem to enjoy sex more than women in porn. In straight porn, the woman is either lying there and taking it, or making some really fake sounds. I’d rather watch two guys truly enjoy each other and the pure adulterated joy of sex, instead of one overly made up, perfectly coifed, falsely panting and moaning woman ‘getting it’ from the man. Men are playing, touching, teasing, grabbing, sucking and fucking without restraint, and I feel free to watch and enjoy without restraint.
Another reason I like male-male sex and erotica is because, like Virginia mentioned, there is a sense of the feminine in-built. Even if it’s two brute-looking leather-bound hairy guys engaging in sweaty, thumping sex, there is always the one man who spreads himself to receive the other. It doesn’t make the receiver second to the giver, if anything, the giver is grateful for the receiver. Somehow this gratitude is missing from straight sex. It’s like women have a hole, so they have to receive and thus, they don’t deserve the same gratitude as a man deciding to play receiver.
Anyhow, that was a bit of a rant about straight porn, maybe even straight sex … yikes!!!
Again, David and Virginia, great interview. Keep it up. I’m off to read some more male on male erotica.
Love,
W
Fun stuff – the mix of freudianism and balls and ass made me horny. Virginia’s views are great in that they generate intellectual curiosity, but no doubt gynecocentric: a man’s ass is really an enactment of a vagina, sucking someone off is going to the mother’s nipple. Not quite. It is what it is, even though the analogy sounds provocative, I don’t think it explains it. Cum as the representation of life and creativity, that is less partial, and I love the concept. Wonderful to read the woman-centric perspective, though. Cheers to that!
As a gay man I find it rather ironic that Ms. Peters speaks with such an authoritative air and makes such sweeping generalizations about gay men when she clearly knows so little about them. Frankly, I was offended by much of what Ms. Peters had to say, found her woefully ill-informed and, frankly, would appreciate if she’d actually take a look at her own pomposity rather than espouse her beliefs about the psychological make-up of gay men.
And as for her comment “It is terrible that so many of these fabulous men in the world are gay –[laughing] for me, I mean — terrible for me.”
Even as a joke this intones a massive degree of homophobia. As if being gay is a waste.
While I’m happy to see such time and thought spent on a subject very close to my heart, I too feel that Virginia Peters is making sweeping generalizations–ones as patronizing to straight women (maybe more so) as they are to gay men. As a straight woman who adores gay porn (visual and video more than written erotica, though I like that, too), I can only speak for myself and my own sexuality. Most heterosexual porn alienates me by depicting fairly unattractive men having lackluster sex with women who look absolutely nothing like me (but are lauded for having breast implants and no body hair). Gay porn, on the other hand, features a wider variety of attractive male bodies and much more exciting sex. I never feel excluded–instead, I feel that these performers and I are sharing in a transgressive act, together rejecting the cliches of hetero porn for something we’re all told we shouldn’t want, but that gives us all real pleasure. (That’s when I’m feeling intellectual about it. Most of the time I’d say: I love looking at men–faces, bodies, cocks, everything. Why wouldn’t I want to watch two or more beautiful men having outrageously hot sex?) Sometimes a cumshot is just a cumshot, Ms. Peters, and I shouldn’t feel marginalized for wanting it that way. And I’d bet I’m not the only girl who does…
As a straight woman I must confess that I thoroughly enjoy watching gay pornography. Especially from NightCharm where I believe there are no other sites that can compare.
I’m a completely straight teenage girl..and I definitely like gay porn.
Hi, I am a girl and I love gay porn. Straight porn are only disgusting for me, because I think the girls have not that fun as the boys do. Watch a straight porn and tell me what you see. I can tell you, you see girls with painful faces. And it always seems to be kind of a power game between boys and girls.
Different in gay porn for me. They are both boys, they don’t have to seem power games, they have wonderful bodies. The size of their cocks seems not to be that painful big and most important of all, they use condoms. What still don’t happen in straight porn.
And it inspires my phantasy more than any other kind of porn.
So, yes I love gay porn, so why not?
Keep going.
I was reading through the comments and for a brief moment I had to wonder if Wildewit and Trixie were me! I LOVE gay porn. I am disappointed that I can’t seem to find more info online about other women who do. I was and still am wondering why I like it. I can’t say I agree with all that “men just envy and fear women” nonsense- then again I’m a woman and don’t know. However a significant part of me hopes that those men I enjoy watching have sex aren’t just doing it because they wish they were women- that’s dumb.
Hetero porn sucks. The fake sounds, corny sex chats and the expressionless faces of the women in their heels just does nothing for me. I don’t get turned on by a woman giving a man a blow job but I might sometimes feel that tingle when watching men. Gay porn actors seem to adore the male body- they enjoy their own bodies and their partner’s bodies during sex- they seem to enjoy a hand job as much as a blow job whether they’re giving or receiving.
However as I’m not in a relationship right now, I find I’m somewhat confused as to what my future holds- I don’t like lesbian sex and am not attracted to women but damn it if I don’t just enjoy gay porn! I’m thinking I’ll have to consider pegging in my future haha!
i like it, that why im here~^ç½’^
i love gay porn. straight porn is so boring, and over done. i like to look at men, not women. most straight porn focuses on the woman. i look at nude men just as much as men look at nude women. and i completely enjoy watching 2 or more men together
I am a straight female who only watches male gay porn. It excites me tremendoulsy. Hetro or lesbian porn does nothing for me. When I masturbate with my dildo I think about the action I saw in the male gay porn. Sometimes I wish I had a penis so I could use it a guy.
Ya know I find very erotic 2 or 3 or more guys getting it on although I am not gay I definitly BI , I love both the male and female body and what each is designed for . And women who like gay porn or bisexual guys are the real women of the world . I feel most people have a need for the Taboo , girl on girl , guy on guy , but in most of America anyways its all a hidden thing that no one really talks about openly outside thier descrete lives . Hmmm , its nice to feel compfortable with who and what you are being male or female , turns ons for sex are so wide and separated that to cover all of them is very hard to do in any discussion. I just hope all people find and complete thier fantacies with condemnation by Anyone . Have great sex and live free, BTW… gimmie a woman that can respect me for my sexuality , and she shall see that her diesires are just as respected by me . I dont know mabe I am just crazzzzy , toys in the attic ,,,, LMAO
I know plenty of women (myself included) who like gay porn, gay themed stories, gay-themed art. They’re straight, bi, and lesbians a like. There’s actually quite the rise in the whole ‘women into gay men’ wave, especially on the Internet.
The term ‘yaoi’ comes to mind, a general umbrella term for gay male themed stories and graphic novels usually aimed at women. It’s a Japanese term, though ‘yaoi’ has spread heavily into the West over the past decade. Women of all ages seem to be in the craze, though the highest majority is usually 18-28 and 18 and under.
Classic yaoi tends to paint things up in a very feminine fashion, usually always having a dom and a fem ( seme and uke being the Japanese terms ), but in recent years there’s also been more of a rise in masculine based yaoi, as well as pairs that are equal with no exact set dom and fem role.
(link) is an art community who’s entire theme is that of males and male couples in artwork. A hefty portion of the site is female though there is a growing demographic of males as well.
I don’t know if I can really explain the phenomena. But there’s been plenty of discussion as to the ‘why?’ all over the ‘Net.
Cheers.
HI i luv horny bitches they are fucking sexy im a girl and this is fucking sexy looking and staring at the bitches’s boob they are so fyuckinsg sexy